Third base: Pedro Feliz (really!)
Editor's note: OK, we're back on with our best defensive players series. I'm looking for this year's best defensive players, and I'm using common statistics, the super secret information I have received from John Dewan (author of The Fielding Bible), scouting reports from various people I know around the game and my own observations.
Every single time Pedro Feliz throws the ball to first base, I anticipate that he has overthrown the third baseman. I noticed this on about Day 3 of the Bonds chase. There would be a grounder hit to third, I would be half-heartedly paying attention, Feliz would scoop it up and throw the ball and my mind would immediately go, “Oh man, that’s in the stands.”
And the ball would plunk in the first baseman’s glove, shoulder high. Every time.
The first couple of times this happened, I didn’t think much of it. And then I realized it was a constant – there is something about Feliz’s throwing motion that (to me, anyway) makes it look like the ball slipped out of his hands and it will soar high. I asked a scout friend about this, and he said that he had not noticed that (actually he said: “It’s possible you could use a vacation,”), but HE had noticed that Feliz has a funny way of setting his feet when he throws. He said that Feliz looks a little bit off balance when he as he makes the exchange from glove to throwing hand – he just isn’t very smooth.
I asked a different scout about this theory, and he said he had not noticed that at all. HE thought Feliz was fairly steady at third but he, “lacked range.” “He doesn’t have very good instincts, especially to his right,” this scout said.
I bring up these three conflicting views about Pedro Feliz because statistically there is absolutely and positively no doubt that Feliz is the best defensive third baseman in baseball. None. For you traditionalists, he has the best fielding percentage. For the Bill James lover in all of us, he has the highest fielding range. For those looking for a little bit of a statistical edge, he has the best zone rating. And for those, like me, who love John Dewan’s plus/minus system, Feliz is FAR AND AWAY the best in baseball.
And yet, there is something about the way Feliz plays that keeps most people from believing this. Hell, I have a hard time believing it. As I look through the various scouting reports I have on the guy, the best I’ve found is that he’s “reliable” at third. I’ve found others who think he’s a below average third baseman.
This might get at the core purpose of this defensive series – it’s just plain hard to judge defense by what you see. Bill James has often said that if we didn’t keep trustworthy offensive numbers, we would likely not be able to tell much difference between a .300 hitter and a .275 hitter, a 25 homer guy and a 20 homer guy, a 100 RBI guy and an 80 RBI guy and so on. I think this is true, though I would say there are exceptions here – I do think that, in a very short period of time, we would realize that Jason LaRue can’t hit.
Tangent: This year, in 127 at-bats, LaRue is hitting .157. That would be a 1 followed by a 5 followed by a 7. Now, many people have wondered why LaRue keeps playing on a fairly regular basis, and I don’t have a particularly intelligent answer for this; I do have a theory. I think it may have something to do with the regret the Royals feel for not going into the National League a few years ago when they had a chance. Since they cannot have their pitchers hit, they are doing the next best thing.
Two other points about LaRue:
1. He hit .194 in 191 at-bats last year. So that means that in his last 318 at-bats, LaRue is hitting .179. The last guy to get 300 at-bats in ONE season and hit that badly … the great Rob Deer in 1991. He hit .179 in 448 at-bats. Deer did bang 25 homers (13 more than LaRue) and walk 89 times (50 more than Larue). Before that, you have to go back to 1974.
2. Tony La Russa made big news by hitting his pitcher eighth. So where was the national media when Buddy Bell hit LaRue seventh?
The point is we DO have offensive statistics (and pitching statistics) that people generally trust. And while it’s certainly true that even those statistics don’t tell the whole story, and people do seem to think that A-Rod’s RBIs are somehow less filling than Jeter’s or whatever, nobody disagrees that, say, Albert Pujols can hit.
Well, that’s the kind of defensive year that Pedro Feliz seems to be having. He’s having an Albert Pujols defensive year. He leads the league in pretty much every statistic. But because people generally feel that defensive statistics are misleading, inconclusive, incomplete or flat stupid, I suspect most people do not believe in Pedro Feliz.
* * *
Something about awe and the arms of third basemen: I played third base at Royals fantasy camp, in large part because, well, I’ll tell you the story.
First, though, I am about to brag about an athletic talent I have, and I feel it is important to preface this by saying that I am fully away that I am a fat slob. I’m short, I have no jump shot, I was slow even in high school when I weighed 135 pounds, I have brutal eyesight, I can’t hit a golf ball into the air, I fell off a horse the one time I tried to ride, I can’t really skate, and I have never, to my recollection, won a game of pool when the other guy (or girl) did not scratch on the eight ball. So I cherish the very few athletic skills I was born with. These are two:
1. I have always had a ferocious first serve in tennis. I rarely get it in. But when I do, it’s a monster. It was clocked at 103 mph at one of those “How fast is your serve?” booths they have at tennis matches (trust me, they have them). And I wasn’t using my racket there, and the booth was crowded – I’m pretty sure I could have hit 110.
2. I’m a good fielder.
The second talent was hard earned. I have mentioned, time and again, my hero worship of Duane Kuiper and Buddy Bell – it was their fielding ability that captured me. I would go to our little basement in South Euclid and spend hour after hour after hour throwing the ball against the wall and fielding the grounders that bounced back. I really did make myself a good defender. I once went an entire Little League season at second base without making a single error. Now, to be fair, this is partly because except for the one or two lefties in the league, nobody in our league really hit the ball to second base. Cleveland kids, for whatever reason, were pull-crazy. But the point stands.
Of course when I went to fantasy camp, I had no idea how my childhood fielding skills would stand up. It had been more than 20 years since I had played in a hardball game. That was a lot of pasta ago. I was standing by third base and George Brett was working with some guy in the cage. The guy ripped (well, sort of ripped) a hard grounder to my left. I stepped, lunged, and scooped the ball smoothly. Two things happened* (PG-13 Language approaches):
1. George Brett shouted, “Holy shit!”
2. George Brett shouted: “Holy shit!”
No, that’s not one thing. That’s TWO things. First, George Brett, one of the two greatest third basemen ever, a man who towered over the childhood of everyone my age, the guy who hit the pine tar homer, the guy who won batting titles in three decades, the guy who almost hit .400, the guy who hit three homers in a playoff game, the greatest clutch hitter probably of the last 50 years, the king of Kansas City … GEORGE BRETT was stunned enough by my defensive play to unleash the holy expletive.
And second, well, OK, yeah, it’s just one thing. But I wanted to bask in it for an extra minute.
Anyway, after that people saw me as a third baseman (even though I had always played second base). So I went out there and the first play, someone hit a slow roller down the third base line. I charged, scooped, and threw him out. I’m making that sound a lot smoother than it was for brevity’s sake. Anyway, that got my manager and friend Frank White (eight-time Gold Glover, you know) to whistle in admiration. I’m telling you, just for those two moments alone this camp was worth the 3,500 bucks I paid. True, my kids will have to go to Community College but still …
Now, I wasn’t really bringing all this up to dwell in the few pathetic moments of glory that a 40-year-old man feels playing at a baseball fantasy camp. That just sort of happened naturally. No, I was bringing it up to say that I played third base, and I’m a pretty good fielder, and I can tell you first hand that the throw from third to first is like the drive from Jacksonville to Miami. It’s MUCH longer than you think it is. It is slightly longer than one of the runways at LaGuardia.
I mean I have a reasonable arm (as represented by my tennis serve) and I made that throw for three days (or, more accurately, I’d didn’t come close to making that throw), and now I simply don’t look at third basemen in the same way. One of the constant themes of this blog – and my general feelings about sports – is that we should, in the immortal words of that philosopher John Cougar Mellencamp, “hold on to 16 as long as we can (changes come around real soon make us women and men).” That is, every so often it’s good to notice awesome things. This comes naturally when you’re young. But as you get older, you sometimes need to stop and remember that a lot of really cool stuff that happens in sports, that there is nothing routine about routine plays, that it really is a ridiculously long throw from third to first.
So now I watch the way Adrian Beltre just sort of sidearm flips the ball across the diamond, I see the way Scott Rolen charges a bunt and throws off his right foot, I see the way David Wright dives, gets up, and just HAMMERS his throw over there, and I feel a little bit of that childhood awe.
OK, here are my Top 5 defensive third basemen:
1. Pedro Feliz
2. Scott Rolen
3. Ryan Zimmerman
4. Adrian Beltre
5. David Wright
25 comments:
First, congratulations on the defensive skills that earned you two great memories of George Brett and Frank White. I am forever jealous that you have those memories and I do not.
Second, I think I know why LaRue has played as much as he has: The Royals win when he catches.
I don't know how, but according to B-R.com, the Royals are 18-21 when he starts compared to the 28-41 when Buck starts.
I don't know if those numbers would change if LaRue and his 41 OPS+ played more, but that is what B-R says and it rarely lies to me.
Have fun in River Falls...
In re: Fleas, all I can say is, he's really been picking it for the last few years. To the point that when he muffs a tough play, it's a surprise.
Too bad he takes back all the runs he saves -- and more -- with his bat.
But, whew, he can pick it right now.
In Mark McGwire's last year (2001), he was one at-bat away from joining the Larue-Deer club: 299 AB, 56 hits, .187 BA, 29 HRs (more than HALF his hits left the yard), 64 RBIs, 56 BBs. His OPS was actually a respectable .808, though nowhere near the 1.100-plus figure of his glory days.
Interesting pick in Feliz. I guess he's been seen too much of a semi-slugger with a low BA to be considered as a great defensive third baseman. It's good to see Ryan Zimmerman being #3 even though he's played only one full season and is on his way to his second. (I'm a UVA grad is why.)
And congratulations at wowing the trousers off of George Brett. I guess he's seen you too much in the press box to consider you a great defender?
Great fantasy camp story. Do they still run those? It seems that in the late 1980s those were a very popular thing and the Astros even ran a full page ad for them in their program. It doesn't seem that way anymore. What happened?
Speaking of 3b fielding, Morgan Ensberg leads the Astros with 11 errors this year despite playing in only about half of the games this season. His 11 errors lead SS Adam Everett's 8 and might hold up for the year despite his now being in SD. His fielding pct is around .920 and he can't hit much anymore either.
Hey Joe, first time commenter (love the blog). How do you feel about Alex Rodriguez? I realize he had a very poor year defensively last season, but since trimming all that bulk during the off-season, he has emerged as arguably the best defensive 3B in the American League. He has been making great diving stops, a lot of them to his left saving Jeter from looking even worse. He's also got a cannon and has been making very good throws. And even if you don't get to see him often, he's in the top 10 in MLB 3B in Zone Rating.
Anyway, keep up the good work, I just ordered The Soul of Baseball and will begin reading it as soon as I get it.
I agree, Feliz is a great fielder although you wouldn't really think so. Why? Because he's a bad hitter. This guy can't even get a hit batting near Bonds in the lineup. He is streaky as hell, and just isn't that good. Basically, if you had Feliz as you're third baseman, you'd be looking for a new one constantly. But, yes, excellent fielder. And how many gold gloves? None I think...Jeter? 3 I believe...since when did the Gold Glove turn into the Silver Slugger? Speaking of which, why does fielding get a gold award where hitting gets a silver?
I think Feliz is also seen as a utility infielder. I know he also plays SS, 1b and some OF. I think that waters down his reputation.
Very cool fantasy camp story. At least you didn't pop the Mick like Kramer did.
I had though that Feliz's fielding acumen had been fairly well known for a few years now (At least in SF). My question is does it make up for the fact that he's an absolute zero with the bat (actually slightly less than a zero according to baseballprospectus)?
I thought that the all-field-no-hit pick for this one would be Nick Punto, but the fact that he didn't even crack the top 5 seems a little surprising. Just how good is he, seeing as how his defense is apparenly the only reason the Twins haven't packed him in styrofoam peanuts and stashed him in a box somewhere behind the giant milk carton in right field?
How about Brandon Inge?
Baseball America did their "Best Tools" (not tools as in the guy who takes my parking spot at the office, but tools as in skills) survey of major league managers and Feliz didn't crack their list of top defensive third basemen in the NL. On the other hand, Derek Jeter was the best defensive shortstop in the American League. So what the hell do they know?
Perhaps even trained eyes lie.
If only I had looked better striking out--I could have been a major leaguer. Or at least a fantasy camp major leaguer.
I also think that Inge needs more recognition. He has a better arm of any third baseman I can think of, being a catcher for the Tigers helped it I think. Sure his offense is a little down this year but he still has fifty RBIs. He also tends to receive more errors on plays where it was going to be tough if he made the play at all then he should. His error total is high which may be his only real knock, but the guy has range.
Didn't surprise me to read here about Pedro Feliz and his defensive ability. In the Diamond Mind Baseball game this season, Feliz is rated Excellent at 3B.
Just like Adam Everett was born at the wrong time... Somehow I think he would have been a lot more highly regarded in the 60's than he and his .281 OBP are now. It's not hard to imagine Curt Gowdy on the Game of the Week, raving that Feliz drove in 98 runs last year and is a great defender to boot. (If he drew a few more walks, his line wouldn't be much different from some Sal Bando seasons.)
Reading your comment about only having 2 lefties in your league growing up, I've got something for you to research and help me figure out. I played ball in college and me and some of the other guys all agreed that left handed hitters hit the ball to the opposite better. Almost as if it's natural. Now, this is mostly in youth leagues through high school, although you see it with young college players as well. The pros hit to all fields (that's why they're pros).
Why is that?
Well, I learned to hit to the opposite field because our pickup games in high school rarely had enough players, so we'd "turn off" right field (as in, anything in the air to the right of about the second baseman was a foul ball). It was too much effort for the outfield to switch over just when I was batting, so I adjusted.
But I doubt that helps you much -- most people don't play unorganized baseball past "wiffle ball in the backyard" stage.
I think part of it is that when we are young, shortstops and 3rd basemen have a harder throw than the second baseman. If a lefty pulls the ball, the second baseman can field it and make an easy throw. But if you can hit it to the left side of the field you have a better chance. That's why righties don't learn to hit the other way as well.
I have no clue, just an observation. Joe could figure this out.
Re. Kerfeld:
I believe the Twins still run a fantasy camp in the winter at their place in Fla. In fact, I understand that if you are male, under 40 years old, can throw the ball across the diamond most of the time, and can bunt, the Twins will give you a full-ride scholarship to fantasy camp PLUS an official tryout at third base.
How does the Royals' Alex Gordon rate in comparison with the best in the game today?
All this commentary and not one mention of Eric Chavez? Hasn't he won the last 4 or 5 AL Gold Gloves?? True, his hitting never seems up to expectations and is often horrible. And he plays hurt a lot, but he seems to make at least one AMAZING play a week, and all the routine plays as well. I'm not looking up all the cool statistics but it seems he should at least be in the discussion.
I'm quite surprised you don't have room for Mike Lowell in the top five, unless he is being penalized unduly for this season's rather fluky spike in errors. Great reflexes, as steady an arm as you'll find, and smooth as silk. I think he also has a tremendous talent when it comes to positioning, as he often just seems to be right where he needs to be to make the play - which makes those attention grabbing dives unnecessary.
I surely hope you'll tell us that Lowell just missed the cut.
I'm in an over-30 league, and while I never play 3B in games, I'll sometimes slide over there in BP. I can't believe how far of a throw it is. I can make it (barely) but only with a trajectory on the throw that resembles the Gateway Arch. I feel the same sort of envy when I see someone just effortlessly shoot the ball over there on a straight line.
Holy sh*t, your George Brett story was funny.
Joe, did all of the crazy blog posting in July burn you out? Have you been put on the DL or sent down to Wichita to rehab?
Every single time Pedro Feliz throws the ball to first base, I anticipate that he has overthrown the third baseman.
Happy Pete is the third baseman. How can he overthrow himself?
I don't see how you can make a list of fine-fielding hot corner men and not make a space near the top for Ryan Braun. A travesty.
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